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Owly last won the day on October 11 2019

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  1. There are charts for temps and times......I love MR with steak, so for me it is 130F. The time is a guess until you've tried the product because toughness varies. Mine go in the freezer, and as I'm single they come out one at time depending on what I'm in the mood for. The first one gets cooked right out of sous vide.... dried and seasoned as appropriate. The initial time for chuck is usually 8 hours..... you can't hurt it in 8 hours. If it is too tough for my taste, they go back in and the time is a judgment call. Sometimes I do a full 24 hours if it is a particularly tough cut. Chicken....... and I usually only buy thighs... I like dark meat, I usually do at about 145-150. This is where a temp and time chart serves very well..... it takes a little sleuthing on Google, but there is at least one site that gives results with various times and temps......... At higher temps it tends toward stringy (traditional oven or pan cooked effect), and tends to be drier, as more juices cook out. At lower temps more moist, less stringy, and longer times make it softer.... I don't like to go more than a few hours. Most sites give A temperature. There is at least one.... and I can't find it right now that has the full range of temps and times with photos and descriptions of the results. If you cook a lot of chicken, start about 135, and run through the range of cook times from 1.5-4 hours, then up the temp to 140 and repeat, etc in 5 deg increments....Take notes and decide what you like best. The 135 will be safe at anything past an hour at full temp. It will be very moist, and it will have some pinkness... which is fine but just doesn't feel right due to our upbringing. Dark and light meat are a different thing...... What works well for dark meat may ruin light meat. I never cook them together at the same temp and time. Technically 130F actual internal temp for an hour will kill any living bacteria...... it of course will not kill spores left by spore forming bacteria....... but they are not harmful unless you are canning and saving it at room temp. They are only killed at around 250 by pressure cooking or baking. The type of meat really doesn't make any difference in this respect, though a lot of people feel pork and chicken should be cooked hotter than 130, the same principle applies in reality. When operating in the low end of the temp spectrum (130), you want to know that your temp is accurate. It's probably safest to go 5 deg higher "for insurance".
  2. If you approach sous vide as the final cooking process....it falls short. I buy things like chicken thighs in quantity from Costco, and beef and pork on sale when it's a bargain.......... Consequently my freezer is full. I rarely go from water bath directly to grill. I usually sous vide cook things and they go in the freezer sealed. When time comes to finish them they are thawed and drained........ then given the final process which gives the flavor and the much vaunted (justifiably so) malliard reaction. They may get a dry rub first, or as in the case my my chuck of the other day a marinade before sous vide. If any acid or alcohol is used, it should be removed before the sous vide process as it will penetrate excessively. In this case it sat in the marinade for an extended period of time in a container prior to bagging. Another chuck just got a dry rub before bagging. I don't do skinless boneless..... both have flavor and contribute to the eating experience. The main positives are that the meat is both fully cooked, and moist and tender if you do it right while you CAN get the flavor and mailliard reaction with the right technique. I've made some mistakes, and had some disappointing results........ It's an evolution toward what one wants to achieve. You can write it off and revert to you tried and true methods, or continue using what I call the error and error method until you get the best of both worlds.......... which IS possible. I'm in South Central Montana (north of Yellowstone), and thick juicy steaks are a tradition here, so I was horrified years ago when I ordered an 8 oz steak at an old railroad hotel / restaurant that had never dissapointed, and I received a steak about 1/2" thick filling most of the plate. I'd ordered medium rare. I became a convert. The steak was perfect medium rare with a lovely brown grilled surface and lots of flavor..........I didn't believe it possible! I didn't know sous vide back then...nobody did except the pros. I assumed they had thrown it on the grill frozen...... how else could you get that effect, but the medium rare went right to the browned surface. The steak was excellent... every single bite. The thin cross section meant that every bite had the full range..... both lovely browned sides, and an abundance of lovely pink medium rare center. You simply cannot accomplish that just with a grill on a thin steak........ it's impossible. You will have a range of done-ness from the dark surface, to lighter and lighter, and finally some pink in the center because of the thermal conductivity of the meat. Doing sous vide properly and finishing properly you can get a "perfect result" every time....... but the technique is not the same. The meat has to be allowed to dry on the surface suitably before seasonings are added, and the temperature has to be hotter....... there is a "magic" combination that does work, and will achieve perfection, but as I said above, it take the "error and error method" to find it.
  3. I do sous vide on almost all the meat I cook, both to tenderize and in the case of chicken to enable a fully cooked piece of chicken without drying it out. I tend to use the Kamado pretty hot and fast. I boycotted ground meat for years because it is just a pain to cook, making it difficult to avoid it being raw in the middle or dry.... The moisture and grease tend to cook out causing shrink and dryness..... It's just to finicky for me. I want medium rare, but I do not trust ground meat. Bacteria are on the outside of meat, and on ground meat the outside is inside. Sous Vide solves all these issues. Because you are pre-cooking in a vacuum sealed bag, there is minimal moisture and no grease lost. You can throw a thick burger on the kamado either lean or full fat, and the cooking time is so brief that you get almost no shrink, or moisture loss. It keeps the flavor in full fat, and the moisture and tenderness in lean, A year ago I loaned my Annova out to a professional chef who had never used Sous Vide. Like many guys my age, he was and remains set in his ways......not an adventurer like I am. In fact most people I know have their way of doing things and it's more or less inflexible... it's just easy to do things the same way everytime. I had bought an Emerill Legasse pressure cooker / air fryer shortly before that, and it had sous vide...... If it hadn't, I would not have bought it. The sous vide function is limited in temp within a preset range, and is about 5deg F hot, but otherwise it works well. It seems to use a PID type control system for sous vide, and I have no real complaints other than the temp limit (95F min) and the 5 deg increments. I was used to the half degree increments and circulation on the Annova (which I now have back). What is important is the result, and I'm getting decent results if I set the temp 5 deg low. I use the system for many things...... The day seldom passes without me doing something in it. I use it in lieu of a microwave.......... does a far better job, not producing tough spots and uneven heating. I use the air fry lid a lot... increasingly. I even do bacon on a rack over water under it....... virtually no smell in the house, no grease splatter. I steam things. I do not use slow cook..... I've never liked slow cooker results. I don't make yogurt, I do cook rice and beans, etc. At the moment I'm making my own variant of Feta cheese, and using it to maintain temp. Unfortunately 95 is the minimum Sous Vide temp, and 90 would be preferable.... why do they think they need to limit you, and dictate processes. Are we supposed to do only the processes they have tested at the temps they dictate? I'm not wired that way! I hate having to outsmart technology. It applies to software, cars, appliances, etc....... just let me do it MY WAY!! I'm about to add the rennet (real dead animal rennet). I modify the process in that I add a culture intended for Swiss Cheese, and an enzyme that gives it a goaty flavor, and after cutting the curd, I "cook" the curd at about 110F to firm it up without killing the microbes, then I put it in the dehydrator at about 80F for 12 hrs after pressing it, to firm the surface up before going into the brine. An easy cheese that goes well with my Gyros meat, as well as on salads to go with my Kamado products. The latest some marinated steak........ I won't describe the recipe as I'm not happy with it yet. I've done better doing a dry rub, the sous vide with the rub on, the grilling briefly and HOT. I do one thing I can't talk about here with this unit....... involving a 3' copper column, and the sous vide function. It actually works quite well.... but I can't discuss that here If you buy one of these kinds of units......... find someone else who has one first. The Instant Pot Air Crisp looks good......... but I haven't used one. My Emerill Legasse is the older one without the big screen........ I don't know if the newer ones have as much flexibility........ It seems that the tendency is to take away user control rather than enabling it. Always frustrating to me.......The things I do don't fall into a neat box with everybody else! H.W.
  4. Owly

    Gyros Meat

    Gyros is a popular Greek "street food". Normally it is made by impaling layers of spiced meat on a vertical skewer which is rotated in front of a heating element....... a vertical rotisserie. For the rest of us, it can be done in a barbecue. The trick is to cook it and slice off the cooked meat as it cooks. I use ground meat and spices... fresh onion and garlic, garlic, rosemary, and oregano. You can find suitable proportions on the internet. I was gifted a bunch of elk burger, and I'm NOT fond of wild game........ I was raised on it. Elk where I live are a nuisance pest like black flies!. I do not feel that they have enough fat of a decent flavor to be worth the bother. It's really about living out the hunter provider part of our nature IMHO. I have killed many animals over the years and eaten them, but I prefer beef to almost anything else. I mixed the ground elk with beef burger (high fat), and pork, added the spices and onion and garlic, and beat it in my Ninja blender food processor until it was sticky. Formed it into a loaf, and cooked it sous vide for an hour at 150F. Drained off the liquid..........and gave it to the neighbor dogs. It then went into my mini Kamodo with some mesquite. As one side browned, I thin sliced it off, and rotated it 90 or 180 deg. A fairly rapid process. I ended up with a nice container full of gyros meat.........Non "traditional", but delicious. I made pita bread.......again you can find recipes online, and tzatziki sauce...... also simple. I make gyros for lunch, steaming the meat, and pita, loaded with onions, tomatoes, and greens, and slathered in tzatziki........ dripping with goodness and loaded with flavor..... a great and disgustingly healthy lunch.
  5. Owly

    Feta Cheese

    Interest in cheese making seems to be virtually non existent here........ My own interests are almost infinite.. though I could care less about team sports, ladies fashion, television or movies, etc. That kind of puts me "beyond the pale" among most people I know......... not that I give a flying F! Microbes have been a passion of mine since childhood........ 50+ years. My "new best friend" in the microbe world is Bacillus Subtilus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_subtilis The microbe that is used to produce Natto......... a very unpleasant tasting Japanese food, well loved in parts of Japan, but offensive to the North American Palette. It is a slimy strong tasting soy product that is repellent to most people........ including me. It has the virtue of being extremely high in vitamin K2.......... and you can read about the benefits of K2, particularly to your heart almost anywhere. I dehydrate mine and use it in smoothies. The flavor has been compared to strong flavored washed rind cheeses........ which do not appeal to me either. I've begun efforts to use B subtilus in cheese..... second effort the other day. Feta is perhaps the easiest cheese to make, and fortunately is one of my favorites. As I make natto regularly, I dumped the milk in the container, and brought it up to temp for a few hours, then innoculated with kefir, and pitched my rennet. The product looks excellent, but the flavor is not what I wanted....... at this point. It will "ripen" in brine at under 50F for 2 weeks, but I suspect that the B Subtills flavor will not really develop at that temp. The previous effort used a mesh bag of natto submerged in the milk...... I left it all afternoon....... a mistake as the milk curdled....but I think the approach was fundamentally sound......... the time and temp need to be adjusted. I will work to hone in on the optimal time over the next few months. Interestingly nitrogen enhanced whey is used to culture B Subtilus to produce vitamin K......... but I suspect aeration is a big factor. H.W.
  6. My still from the previous post was actually for a friend ultimately. His family has a history of bootlegging and he was very enthused about using my "essential oils" still.... I'm deeply disappointed that he has chosen to use the still for things that Carrie Nation would NOT approve of. I've long been proud of Butte Mt with regard to that famous temperance crusader. She ended up in a fight with a whorehouse madam, and was "run out of town on a rail" so to speak. The ONLY town in the USA to literally throw her out of town....BRAVO! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrie_Nation # 6 is in the early stages. Strictly for essential oils! I'm using a high quality Instant Pot knock off as the foundation. Built a stainless steel lid with a tri-clamp fitting. It will use a bubble plate column, and an air cooled condenser for the highest quality essential oils possible......... many of which will be extracted from botanicals including juniper berries and various other things using ethanol vapor for extraction.
  7. Just a final note. The product came out delicious. The saltpeter in the tenderquick left a reddish ring, like a smoke ring but reddish, and seemed to carry the hickory smoke powder and brown sugar flavors in with it. The sous vide and the fact that I froze it before smoking left a very pretty interior that was medium to medium rare in appearance rather that the typical color of a smoked brisket. Everybody loved it, and it got lots of complements. I'm not at all sure that the tenderquick rub was such a bad idea after all....which is good because I have plenty of rub left I can't see any reason to do a brisket without sous vide....the result is superior in terms of moisture and tenderness. The juices drained off when the brisket was removed from the bag and cooked down to a syrup like consistency with the addition of some honey was great for basting, and left a beautiful dark and tasty bark The hickory smoke powder makes a great ingredient for a dry rub, though a dry rub followed by a 24 hour of sous vide immediately really is a marinade of sorts.
  8. I just removed the brisket, and you are obviously right.... a poor choice. It clearly has that corned beef reddish ring. Live and learn. The dehydrator worked extremely well for sous vide. I took it out of the sous vide and placed it in the dehydrator after only a couple of hours. The LEM dehydrator did a superb job of maintaining Sous Vide temperature. The result is not quite what I wanted, but it is delicious. It has now been transferred into the freezer, and I'll run it through the kamodo this evening... or at least half of it. I took the expelled liquids and cooked them down. It will go into the kamado frozen, and I'll baste with the liquids to which I added some honey. I don't know what the result will be, but the sample I tasted was delicious....... Live and learn ;-( What the result is, is not as important as that it is good. Clearly the LEM dehydrator with it's precision temp control is a viable alternative for sous vide.... I will use that method again, but I feel that bringing it up to temp first in a water bath is important. This evening I'll put one of the slabs in the kamado keeping the temp low and smoking it with chips, and basting it with the concentrated expelled liquid. That it comes out delicious is probably a higher priority than that it comes out a specific product...At least that's one way to rationalize "failure" Often times we have to rationalize "failure" this way ....... If I share with others, I'll have to come up with a new name for it and pretend it's all part of my "grand plan" Name suggestions .................. H.W.
  9. I just did a dry rub on a bargain brisket. Lots of course ground black pepper, some brown sugar, some tenderquick, hickory smoke powder, and a few other things. The brisket is going into sous vide at 155 for 24 hours. My Annova has been loaned out to a local chef to try to encourage him to use sous vide in his catering and food truck business. The time saving in things like fried chicken, and improved quality would be huge. I do burgers sous vide in stacks separated by wax paper, then 30 sec on the grill for a perfect medium rare all the way through and no shrinkage at all.... He's stuck in his ways. The machine I'm using for sous vide right now is an Emerill Legasse version of the instant pot. It is the most used appliance in my kitchen between sous vide, steaming, air frying / toasting, and various other jobs. I use the pressure cook function all the time often just for reheating in preference to the microwave. Because I use the instant pot so much, I don't want to tie it up with a 24 hr sous vide job.... The solution is going to be to swap it over to my LEM dehydrator this evening set at max which is 150F. With the brisket up to temp already from the water bath, the dehydrator should maintain the temp fine......... Has anybody tried this? After sous vide, I will probably freeze the two half briskets (I had to cut it in half), and then smoke them in my mini kamado from the frozen state to get a good bark on it without over cooking. Thoughts?? H.W.
  10. Owly

    Re intro

    I suspected someone would say that or suggest it independently.... that comment was to "cut them off at the pass", or beat them to the draw so to speak.
  11. I have long loved the taste I could get by throwing green willow or maple leaves on the coals. I discovered this over 40 years ago when I was young and in love... the GF and I would go hiking and on the way grab a couple of Tbones.... a book of matches from some business........ they gave them away back then, and forget everything else Remember those days? In heat would be a better description I think. We would start a small fire up in the Bitteroots, and weave a grill from creek bottom willows, throw the steaks on and cook them to a beautiful medium rare....never missed salt and spices........which were always among the forgotten. Perhaps we were so starry eyed and in love that the real spice came from something else I use green willow leaves and stalks these days... I also have cherrywood and mesquite, but I prefer the willow........ perhaps it's just the memories. The taste of love Note that "willow" encompasses a wide variety of bushes and trees. These were creek bottom willows from those dense patches along a creek. I have no idea how diamond willow (which grows around here), golden willow, weeping willow, or any of the others would be. These are the classic #### willows (in the spring). I also have used maple leaves, and suspect that any maple would do.
  12. I'm into another fasting season. I'm at the 6 day mark, currently breaking my fast. I began last Monday, had one meal after 2.5 days (listen to your body), and resumed water fasting breaking this AM the following Sunday. Working to improve my break-fast methods, I decided hummus would be a good thing for the purpose. I never have had any use for hummus, but I set out to make an EXCITING HUMMUS....Is that possible?? As it turns out it very much is. Looking through my dry goods pantry, I found some black beans and green lentils.....I also had Garbanzos, Pintos, Whites, and ordinary kidney beans and Lima beans, and a variety of other lentils. Black beans and green lentils caught my eye and imagination. I love black beans and lentils are a fantastic source of protein, vitamins and minerals A small batch... about a cup total of the two. It went into my electric pressure cooker which I purchased a few months back.... note that I've always used pressure cookers, and the only reason I bought this was convenience and the fact that it included sous vide function (though not great), and had an air fry lid.... About $120 at Walmart (Emerill Legasse). Cooked for 25 min, no soaking or anything, I cooled them and put them in the food processor with a bit of sesame oil and some lemon juice. I added a nice dollop of tahini, and another nice dollop of pesto (from Costco), as well as some of my turmric / chipoltle mix that I use on about everything, and some salt and a crushed garlic clove. When blended smooth, I put it in a mixing bowl and added around 3T of home made kefir, which is a truly amazing product with powerful microbe culture. Unlike yogurt you can put kefir grains in raw milk and don't need to process the milk at all or worry about temp regulation. I mixed all this up and put it in a container and floated a bit of sesame oil over it to seal it from oxygen. I put a lid on this and put it in the dehydrator at 90F. I could detect tang developing within about 6 hours, and after a bit under 24 hours it had a lovely sharp tang. It is rich and spicy and tangy. The pesto lends flavor to it as does the chipoltle and turmeric. It is all shot though with bubbles like swiss cheese but smaller, and it is so tasty and savory that it is irresistible. I was fasting when I made this so I tasted and spit......Yes it is possible to maintain that kind of discipline... at least for me. Note: I took no measurements at all......... is "dollop" a measurement? Just shakes and dollops. I even eyeballed the beans and lentils. This was probably a mistake I'll regret. I've invented things in the past and been unable to recreate them. Next time I will document!! DISCLAIMER DO TRY THIS AT HOME ......If you love savory tangy spicy stuff, you will love this. I made it for breaking fast or I probably wouldn't have "discovered" hummus. H.W.
  13. Owly

    Re intro

    Please accept my apologies......... I've been absent for awhile and have not responded to messages and threads..... NO, not in prison, or the hospital, etc. The men in white coats didn't show up at my door and haul me off kicking and screaming in a strait jacket.
  14. I've long been a fan of catalytic propane heaters... 100% efficient, humidifying, and no chimney. Being radiant it is like sitting in front of a fire. DON'T TRY THIS AT HOME I recently "built" a vertical grill from a Buddy heater. I stripped everything off the heater so all that remained was the burner unit, made a suitable counter top stand to place it at the proper elevation (turned sideways), and tapped into household propane lines.... Note that natural gas conversion would be easy... just drill out the orifice a size at a time until it works. I don't live anywhere near gas... far out in the hills. I have a gas rated control valve. A wire grill that pinches the meat or whatever...I've even toasted english muffins in it.... completes the package. The grill is modified to stand on the counter top When I use this I put a damp paper towel on the counter top to catch drips This is intensely hot, and the way I have it set up, you can move the grill closer or further, in fact so close that a nice sear can be accomplished in less than a minute!! It is perfect for sous vide cooked meat, or you can move the meat further from the grill and cook raw meat. Best on a concrete or stone countertop, but I don't have any trouble with scorching on my Formica counter top. This is the proverbial "cats meow" for winter grilling....particularly for me as I'm single. I previously did this with an electric element... actually a hot plate... don't tell anybody DISCLAIMER..... DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME..... I'm extremely experienced qualified, and capable. It is dangerous to mess with gas if you don't know what you are doing. The smartest thing would be to tie this to a propane bottle. Buddy heaters have a regulator and valve. It is not necessary to go to the extremes I did. I removed ALL of the safety devices, the pilot light, the thermocouple, the millivolt control valve, which makes it technically completely unsafe. You just hold a barbecue lighter in front and turn the gas on. I did this to facilitate getting the meat closer to the radiant catalytic plaque. With only me living here, I'm not the slightest bit worried. In a household with children or ignorant adults you wouldn't dare do this. It is in total violation of every code known to man...somebody turns the valve on, fills the house with gas, there's a spark somewhere and BOOM.
  15. Sorry.... I've been absent for awhile, occupied with other things. My approach is to re-sous vide. If it's not taken out of the bag (foodsaver), I don't notice any deterioration in flavor or texture for a significant amount of time. Note that I've been doing ground beer patties 1/3 lb, putting them in a stack in a nice 3" dia stainless canister with a lid that seals well. They are separated by wax paper. It holds 3 patties. I sous vide them at 130F, and then give them a light sear. As I'm single, I only eat one. The other two are covered in liquid and covered against air by wax paper separators. I simply reheat in sous vide. The second and third reheat are not much of a deterioration. I hated ground beef in the past because you really cannot cook it MR all the way, and if the center is under it doesn't kill the microbes in it. Microbes grow on the outside of solid meat, but when you grind it, it's all the way through. Also when pan frying you get shrinkage / moisture and fat loss. With sous vide and a light sear you end up with almost zero shrinkage. This makes lean ground beef moist and good, also full fat ground beef. Sous Vide is the best thing that ever happened for ground beef!! Note that I built a vertical barbecue that sits on my kitchen counter out of a Buddy propane heater. It's stripped down completely and plumbed into household propane. A vertical "pinch grill" for lack of a better word stands on the counter with the steak or burger on edge, a moist paper towel beneath. This does a fantastic job of indoor grilling!! It is extremely intense heat, and you can put the steak or burger as close as you want and only brown the surface, or cook it further through by moving it back. There is zero smoke, and almost no cleanup. Throw away the paper towel, and wipe the counter, drop the wire grill in the sink to soak in dish water for awhile, a light scrub and rinse..... It works very well! H.W.
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