Ken Forkish 48-72 Hour Biga Pizza Dough

[John Setzler]

3 hours ago, ckreef said:

Those are some really tasty looking pizzas. Going to try this dough out next time I make pizzas probably this week. Keep in mind for me to switch off the KA Artisan dough I've been using and try something different is the absolute highest pizza compliment from me. My pizza experimenting days are over but those look good enough to try it. 

 

 

There is no reason you could not try it with the KA flour blend.

[Pequod]

Have done Forkish's overnight levain dough (70% hydration) using Caputo 00 flour and a baking steel in the oven with the broiler method. Have also done the  Pizza Bible levain dough with high protein (All Trumps) flour. Both are excellent. Levain doughs have considerably more flavor than commercial yeast doughs (including 48-72 hour doughs).

 

Here's a recent Forkish overnight levain pizza with 00 flour:

 

[John Setzler]

@HalfSmoke looks awesome!  I will do the levain dough coming up soon.  I am rebuilding my starter with the forkish technique just for kicks.  I plan to do the roman style thin crust next and then a levain neapolatin.

 

[shuley]

Just when I thought I knew something about pizza I found out..... I really know nothing about pizza. This was a fascinating thread.

[landscaper]

I get this at RD. https://www.roundeyesupply.com/All-Trumps-Enriched-Bromated-Flour-Bleached-25-L-p/de404318.htm?gclid=CjwKEAjwrMzHBRDW3saA88aT80MSJACbvo1THxpCA7OLaJ3XuPnDc8j4yjAGP9VfsDKRfxtgytbcAhoCYrnw_wcB&Click=7195

 

 

Makes the best pizza. 

[Pequod]

8 minutes ago, landscaper said:

I get this at RD. https://www.roundeyesupply.com/All-Trumps-Enriched-Bromated-Flour-Bleached-25-L-p/de404318.htm?gclid=CjwKEAjwrMzHBRDW3saA88aT80MSJACbvo1THxpCA7OLaJ3XuPnDc8j4yjAGP9VfsDKRfxtgytbcAhoCYrnw_wcB&Click=7195

 

 

Makes the best pizza. 

 

Yup, that's the stuff, although I use the unbromated version of this. You can find it in smaller quantities if you search a bit.  Makes an excellent New York style crust. I like it much better than the "standard" KA flours. Haven't tried KA Sir Lancelot, though, which I think is similar protein content. Levain dough with All Trumps is my current go-to.  

[freddyjbbq]

On 4/12/2017 at 9:45 PM, John Setzler said:

 

 

stunning!!

[Ginger Ben]

On 4/15/2017 at 9:32 PM, shuley said:

Just when I thought I knew something about pizza I found out..... I really know nothing about pizza. This was a fascinating thread.

I was just thinking the same thing! I was also thinking my wife will kill me when another cook book turns up at the door....

[Ben S]

6 hours ago, Ginger Ben said:

I was just thinking the same thing! I was also thinking my wife will kill me when another cook book turns up at the door....

 

For what it's worth I started getting cookbooks out of the library to try before I buy them. This means I try many more cookbooks and buy far fewer of them. 

[freddyjbbq]

On ‎4‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 2:30 PM, HalfSmoke said:

Have done Forkish's overnight levain dough (70% hydration) using Caputo 00 flour and a baking steel in the oven with the broiler method. Have also done the  Pizza Bible levain dough with high protein (All Trumps) flour. Both are excellent. Levain doughs have considerably more flavor than commercial yeast doughs (including 48-72 hour doughs).

 

Here's a recent Forkish overnight levain pizza with 00 flour:

 

 

ok, this is just beautiful!!

did this bake in the oven?

[Pequod]

23 minutes ago, Freddyj said:

 

ok, this is just beautiful!!

did this bake in the oven?

 

Yes, this was in the oven on a baking steel using Forkish's broiler method. Since it was with 00 flour (which doesn't brown easily), I wanted to do it by the book before taking it to the KK for comparison. I've done other sourdough doughs with high protein (All Trumps) flour and have no problem getting similar browning using a pizza steel on my KK.

 

If you don't have the book, his broiler method is:

 

1) Preheat the oven at 550 for an hour with the steel or stone 8" below the broiler

2) Ten minutes before baking, turn the broiler on high.

3) Put pizza on steel and turn the oven back to bake at 550 for 4-6 minutes.

4) Turn the broiler on high for the last 1-2 minutes.

[John Setzler]

1 hour ago, HalfSmoke said:

 

Since it was with 00 flour (which doesn't brown easily), I wanted to do it by the book before taking it to the KK for comparison.

 

This is a concept i have been struggling with.  I don't think it's the grind of the flour that makes a big difference in the browning.  When I first started making pizzas in the Blackstone oven at really super high temps, I wasn't getting the browning I liked either.  I was getting it in the Kamado but not on the Blackstone.  I think I have sorted out the 'why' on this after completely reading the Ken Forkish book...

 

It's the combination of hydration and temperature that allows the browning to happen.  My problem with the the browning at 900+ degrees was that my dough hydration was too high.  I was using 70% hydration.  That much water in the dough at that high of a temp was keeping it from browning the way I like.  That exact same dough (basically) with the same flour and other ratios browned nicely with the leopard spotting at 900 degrees with a 58-60% hydration dough.  That same 70% hydration pizza dough cooked at 550 degrees browns nicely because the extended time allows enough of the water vapor to dissipate that the browning can occur.  

 

That browning is a maillard reaction just like the browning of a steak crust.  

 

@Mewantkj - do you agree with this?

[Ben S]

15 minutes ago, John Setzler said:

 

This is a concept i have been struggling with.  I don't think it's the grind of the flour that makes a big difference in the browning.  When I first started making pizzas in the Blackstone oven at really super high temps, I wasn't getting the browning I liked either.  I was getting it in the Kamado but not on the Blackstone.  I think I have sorted out the 'why' on this after completely reading the Ken Forkish book...

 

It's the combination of hydration and temperature that allows the browning to happen.  My problem with the the browning at 900+ degrees was that my dough hydration was too high.  I was using 70% hydration.  That much water in the dough at that high of a temp was keeping it from browning the way I like.  That exact same dough (basically) with the same flour and other ratios browned nicely with the leopard spotting at 900 degrees with a 58-60% hydration dough.  That same 70% hydration pizza dough cooked at 550 degrees browns nicely because the extended time allows enough of the water vapor to dissipate that the browning can occur.  

 

That browning is a maillard reaction just like the browning of a steak crust.  

 

@Mewantkj - do you agree with this?

 

I am pretty sure you nailed it, atleast based on first principles. Evaporative cooling, the same phenomenon that causes the stall.  

 

[ckreef]

You all keep talking like this and I'm going to start pizza experimenting again. 

 

What is everyone's thoughts on a preferment. Could I stretch the preferment time out to 48 or 72 hours to give a more sour dough flavor without actually using a sour dough starter? 

 

Do I know what I'm talking about? 

 

[Ben S]

3 minutes ago, ckreef said:

You all keep talking like this and I'm going to start pizza experimenting again. 

 

What is everyone's thoughts on a preferment. Could I stretch the preferment time out to 48 or 72 hours to give a more sour dough flavor without actually using a sour dough starter? 

 

Do I know what I'm talking about? 

 

 

I am pretty sure I have seen people go for up to 7 days in the fridge for a preferment.  So YES, JUST DO IT. 

 

Why not just go sourdough?