Jump to content

This is why your pizza bombed


Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, KamadoChris said:

Works for my heat deflector when I get burned on sugar from a low and slow cook.  No reason it wouldn’t burn off some flour and cheese. I’ve actually chipped off layers of ceramic trying to scrape bonded sugar off my platesetter but it will burn off clean as if it was never there when I flip it over for a pizza cook. 

 

Yeah, I've cleaned off my heat deflector and my pizza stone after low-and-slow by going through a 800-900F pizza cook, but this black char is sonething different.  It's not from cheese or tomato sauce but from spots where the crust charred (so perhaps flour).

 

And my concern is that these black char spots may be self-perpetuating (new char more likely to occur on those black spots).

 

Flipping it over direct flame is a great idea - these stones are rated to 2000F so they should have no problem withstanding the direct heat.

 

And if that doesn't work, I may try sanding lightly to see if I can get a fresh start...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, freddyjbbq said:
Quote

 

thank you so much.

 

i have a couple of the thermoworks timers (that i barely use) and an AMAZING thermoworks infrared therm that i never use.

 

 

Try using your IR thermometer next time you are baking pizza.  They are amazing, fast, and probably provide a more accurate reference than the oven therm.  Checking several spots on dome and stone (or deck) is also a good idea to get a sense of uniformity (wish I'd known that for my first pizza cook).

 

3 hours ago, freddyjbbq said:
Quote

im getting the 800f reading from the therm that is built into my oven (hope that its accurrate lol) and i will guess that the pizza is cooking in 2-3 minutes or so? 

 

Thanks.  And how do you decide when it is time to pull the pizza?  Just based on time knowing the bake is at a known temp or checking and adjusting time halfway through?

 

From my experience, air/oven therm temp is higher than dome or stone, so once you check with your IR therm, you may see that you are actually cooking slightly below 800F (750-775F?).

 

3 hours ago, freddyjbbq said:

 

Quote

 

but here is the difference (i find from MY experience and YMMV) between cooking this dough recipe in the wfo vs kamado:

 

1.  At 800-900 f temps, if you leave your pizza on the hearth or pizza stone until the top looks like the one i posted (leoparding) your bottom will burn 100% of the time (maybe yours wont but mine did).

 

 

That's my experience as well, with one exception (which may have been my best pizza yet).  I was drifting down ftom 900F to 800F and put the pizza on when the stone hit 800F (monitoring through the top vent with IR thermometer).  I did not check dome temp, but suspect the larger hear mass of the dome meant it was drifting down more slowly than the pizza stone, so it was probably closer to 850F than 800F.  In any case, looking through the top vent, I could see as leoparding started to form on the top crust and pulled the pizza when it got right to where I wanted it.  Bottom was charred but not excessively (about right).

 

But any time I'm heating (bottom vent open at all), my bottom crust is overcharred if I pull when the top is done, as you say.

 

3 hours ago, freddyjbbq said:
Quote

 

2. the pizza in my photo cooked on the hearth for probably 2/3 of the time and then after the bottom was finished, we used the "doming" techinque to finish cooking the top.  Not sure that this can be accomplished in a kamado (ps, i LOVE cooking pizza in my kamado joe and probably try that 'do joe' but it will be prob be NY style pizza, not neapolitan style, but maybe, who knows).  i think that the ability to dome your pizza in a pizza oven takes the advantage over kamado for the high-temp Neapolitan Style.


 

 

 

It's possible in a Kamado, but only for so long.  With one person holding the lid partway open, another person can hold the aluminum peel up in dome and the top will continue to cook while the bottom essentially stops cooking.  It's slow and the problem is after ~a minute of 800-900F exhaust exiting from the open dome, even if your hands are protected to handle the heat, the handle on the dome heats up to the point that you need to start worrying about melting.

 

I haven't given up on the technique but am planning to try broiling in the oven when tops need more cook time, since that seems like it would be much easier (though may not be hot enough to cause leoparding).

 

3 hours ago, freddyjbbq said:

3. I feel that you are a PERFECT candidate for a pizza oven, several of us kamado lovers on here have gotten them to compliment our kamado cooking, so much fun to cook on.  i have an original black kamado joe (dont think they even make it anymore) and i dont really like bringing temps up that high.  it is 6 years old and i use it for grilling, smoking, etc but usuallly at 500f and lower temps.

 

Thanks for the compliment, and believe me, I'm thinking about it.

 

I'm sometimes gulty of a short attention span, so want to be more confident Nepolitan-style pizza is a fascination with legs before I make that investment.

 

In the meantime, my very-experienced pizza-cooking neighbors (every Friday night for 20+ years!) have been thinking about breaking out of their oven and 500F pizza by getting a WFO for a while now, and they were impressed enough with the pizza we cooked together on my Kamado that I think this may finally catalyze their initiative.

 

So my plan is to help them get a WFO by next Spring and if I see were going to be in this pizza-making phase for the long-haul and I learn on their oven how much better the experience of cooking Nepolitan style is on a WFO, it will just be a matter of time before I want my own :).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, fafrd said:

 

Yeah, we had friends over for pizza night and she brought two liaves of unbaked bread to cook on the cooling Kamado after we were done cooking pizza.  She used parchment paper so I understand the concept.

 

But what temps are you cooking your pizzas at?  The bread was cooked at 450F and the patchement paper did fine, but I'd be cincerned about it charring or bursting into flame at 800-900F...

 

Also, do you mean that you rotate the pizza on the parchment paper and then slip the parchment out from under the pizza?

 

 

I usually cook my pizzas somewhere between 500 and 600*F (usually 62-65% hydration dough). I don't get too hung up on temp. Parchment does fine at my temps; not sure how parchment would do at the 800-900*F range as I don't go that high.

 

On rotating, after a few minutes, I slide my aluminum peel under the parchment paper and bring the pizza and parchment out and spin the pizza about half way, pull the parchment, and slide the pizza back in for the remainder of the cook. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, ckreef said:

 

Try King Arthur Pizza Blend Flour. It's a blend of three different flours and makes a tasty dough when used in pan style pizzas. It's actually Mrs skreef's favorite flour for pan pizzas. King Arthur also makes a pizza dough seasoning which gives the dough a slightly different flavor. And of course you can always mix in some sour dough starter to tweak the dough flavor. 

 

 

i havent heard of it before but im certainly interested! i'll check it out!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, freddyjbbq said:

 

800 is my sweet spot 

80331A25-3119-429C-875C-D0A4A17BC519.jpeg

 

@fafrd @fbov

 

in one of the other threads someone mentioned something about length of fermentation contributing to leoparding/blistering due to the amount of sugar that the yeast consumed?

 

im not sure of the science on that one and i dont get in to the measurements in cooking so much but wanted to mention that this is a VERY basic dough, 62% hydration, 00 Caputo Pizzaria Flour 2% salt, about 1/16th tsp IDY, 12 hour (or so) bulk rise and about 12 hour (or so) cold ferment (balled up) and cooked at about 800 (or so) f

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, cmiller said:

 

I am going to try a 75/25 mix this time with bread flour/00.  I need to get better as well stretching the dough into pies, but I am going to keep trying a few different things.

 

 

Check out this tutorial. It's a really great recipe but more importantly it shows some dough manipulation and stretching techniques you might be interested in. Lots of detailed pictures. 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, fafrd said:

 

Try using your IR thermometer next time you are baking pizza.  They are amazing, fast, and probably provide a more accurate reference than the oven therm.  Checking several spots on dome and stone (or deck) is also a good idea to get a sense of uniformity (wish I'd known that for my first pizza cook).

 

Nah, I used to use it it but  I prefer less measurement and more trial & error in my cooking.

 

cooking in a range  vs at a specific temp is where it’s at for me &  I’ve visited many pizzerias with WFO in my area and 100 % of them do not use a Temp gun,  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, fafrd said:

 And how do you decide when it is time to pull the pizza?  Just based on time knowing the bake is at a known temp or checking and adjusting time halfway through?

 

In the WFO we’re cooking with the door off and you can see the whole pizza so turning, doming, removing times are 100% visual.  

 

Im sure you could use a timer to gauge these tasks; I’ve done so many that I  can more/less “feel” when it’s about time. 

 

It’s really no different than anything else, practice until you get the feel (like throwing a spiral or a baseball)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^^^^^^ THIS.

 

I think I mentioned something earlier about letting your eyes answer those questions.  Specific temperatures, infrared thermometers, gadgetry and electronic wizardry can not tell you what you are seeing any better than your eyes.  I preach this mantra in the BBQ community but it's hard to impress with it.  Everyone is looking for a cookie cutter approach that uses times and temperatures to produce the result.  Be the cook.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, cmiller said:

Thanks to all you for this discussion.  I'm hosting a pizza party at my RV tomorrow ... probably making around a dozen pies.  It will be my fourth time using my Camp Chef pizza oven accessory.  I've used John's dough recipe the first three times with 00 flour and and 65% hydration.  The pies have been delicious but I did have an issue the first time with getting them launched.  The second time I used cornmeal and it was better launching them but I did have some scorching on the pie bottom because i probably went too heavy with the meal.  Last time I tried parchment paper under the pie and wow it worked great.  I'll be continuing to do that.

 

I am going to try a 75/25 mix this time with bread flour/00.  I need to get better as well stretching the dough into pies, but I am going to keep trying a few different things.

 

Cheers

 

pizza_oven.thumb.jpg.91b33a219506596868e890f9c0db6b0e.jpg

 

Love your oven and the fact that you’re slinging pies at the rv, sounds like one heck of a good time! 

 

Have a look at this info on stretching from Chef Andris, creator of the baking steel.  IMO he does a stellar job making this task simple https://www.bakingsteel.com/blog/secret-round-pizza

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, John Setzler said:

^^^^^^^ THIS.

 

I think I mentioned something earlier about letting your eyes answer those questions.  Specific temperatures, infrared thermometers, gadgetry and electronic wizardry can not tell you what you are seeing any better than your eyes.  I preach this mantra in the BBQ community but it's hard to impress with it.  Everyone is looking for a cookie cutter approach that uses times and temperatures to produce the result.  Be the cook.  

 

 there is a lot of info out there, this is Wisdom.  

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/30/2019 at 4:56 PM, ckreef said:

Check out this tutorial. It's a really great recipe but more importantly it shows some dough manipulation and stretching techniques you might be interested in. Lots of detailed pictures. 

 

 

 

I looked at this before the weekend pizza party and I did change how I stretch the dough to your method ... I still need practice or perhaps I'm letting the dough balls rise too long.  I started making the dough around 11:00 am and had it in balls by 12:20 (after original rise).  I didn't start making pies until around 5:00 pm, and the dough would stretch but it wanted to snap back ... so I spent a lot of time just stretching and restretching.

 

On 8/31/2019 at 7:08 AM, freddyjbbq said:

 

Love your oven and the fact that you’re slinging pies at the rv, sounds like one heck of a good time! 

 

Have a look at this info on stretching from Chef Andris, creator of the baking steel.  IMO he does a stellar job making this task simple https://www.bakingsteel.com/blog/secret-round-pizza

 

Thanks for the link .... I'll take a look.  The pies turned out very tasty again, but I still need help. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, cmiller said:

 

I looked at this before the weekend pizza party and I did change how I stretch the dough to your method ... I still need practice or perhaps I'm letting the dough balls rise too long.  I started making the dough around 11:00 am and had it in balls by 12:20 (after original rise).  I didn't start making pies until around 5:00 pm, and the dough would stretch but it wanted to snap back ... so I spent a lot of time just stretching and restretching.

 

 

Thanks for the link .... I'll take a look.  The pies turned out very tasty again, but I still need help. :)

 

The final proofing is just to let the gluten relax so it stretches easier. 1 hour is really all that's needed. By letting that stage go over 4 hours you're really doing a full second rise. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, ckreef said:

The final proofing is just to let the gluten relax so it stretches easier. 1 hour is really all that's needed. By letting that stage go over 4 hours you're really doing a full second rise. 

I'll have to delay when I start the dough next time and hopefully that has been my issue.

Thanks again :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK, I admit, I have not read 7 pages of pizza posts. I have been reading the last few pages over the last month, and a few earlier posts.

  I really didn't buy a kamado thinking "I gotta get a kamado and start making pizza". I knew you could, and I see that it seems to be a popular use. 7 pages, 748 posts.

 

 So I decided to try, and started with a lot of good info here. Setup, temp more relevant for me than the dough recipe. It came out really good, and did have that wood fired taste that you don't get from the oven. I really was not shooting for heavy char / burnt.

 

 Observation: When I got my two half stones (15") I put them in the oven and gradually raised the temp before I used them. While they were cooling down, I touched them to see if they were cool enough to remove. I noticed they were cool to the touch on the perimeter, but still hot in the center. I am guessing the reverse is happens when heating, perimeter gets hot, gradually the center heats up. I am sure the people that have been probing their stones have noticed this.

 

 Coincidently, I was reading some info about cooking pizzas, and it was recommended that your pizza stone should be 2" larger in diameter than your pizza. That would keep you from burning the perimeter on the hotter outside edge of the stone.

 

 Practical application: when I cooked my 14" pizza, my stone was 15", close enough. Once I got the kamado up to temp, I dialed in the vents and let everything heat at that temp for 10-15 minutes, attempting to get the stone, dome, deflector, everything uniformly heated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share


  • Similar Content

    • By Rob_grill_apprentice
      This weekend I tested making Butter chicken recipe from Milk Street Book, ‘Fast and Slow’ by Christopher Kimball.  Only change I made was use roasted garlic.   I made the Naan Dough with Poolish method.    I used a portion of Naan dough to make a Butter Chicken pizza.   Here are the pictures of the final result,   Both where very delicious.   


    • By VeLoRoK
      Did this on the dojoe, between 550°-600°. I used the Forkish Saturday recipe, but popped it in the fridge for 26 hours after the 2 hour bulk ferment, before dividing and shaping. Fantastic crispy outside, chewy yet pillowy inside. Buffalo Mozz and salami. So good.


    • By Rob_grill_apprentice
      Pizza tasted very good.   I used my Joe Jr. to Roast the Chicken Reshmi Kebabs and used my vision Classic B to bake the individual pizza.   For the cheese I used paneer cheese, extra old cheddar and pizza mozzarella.  The sauce for pizza was the serving sauce for Chicken Reshmi Kebabs.   This pizza will now be part of my pizza repertoire.   






    • By Nnank76
      hey guys,
       
      Ive had a few pizza sessions on my kj classic 2. Although the last time i warped the steel firebox ring so not sure that should count as successful! I thought it aould be good to ask a kj specific question.  
       
      My set up is deflectors on the grill in top position. Spacers on top of that with pizza stone then on top.
       
      So my question/s is when doing high heat cooks:
      1. How long do u let the kj heat sink for? I have just opened the vents and let it ride. When up to 650/700 put pizzas on.
      2. Where do people set their vents? How open is the bottom and top? As above i nlrmally just open them up and stick the pizza on at above the 650/700 mark.
      3. How long should this sort of temp last or is safe for the kj? If i had a pizza party how long could this keep up for eg.
       
      Any advice or thoughts is welcome?
       
      Cheers
      Nathan
       
    • By gordo2212
      Best one to date. Pictures of just taken off the grill and then added some arugula and sprinkle of EVOO and pecorino romano. 


×
×
  • Create New...