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Unplanned flour test

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We decided to do pizza Sunday, after Thanksgiving, and I only had 500g of Anna Napoletana Tipo 00 flour, so I did a second dough using Bob's Red Mill Artisan bread four.  Both made Thursday (Thanksgiving) at 65% hydration, split and refrigerator aged. Baked six pies in no specific order. 


Noticed a consistent doughiness from the Artisan flour pies. Did a cross section and was surprised by what I found.
(Top: Artisan , Bottom: Tipo 00)


The lower pie has (from the bottom) three layers, nice open bread dough, a red sauce layer, and toppings dominated by white cheese. 

The upper pie has four layers, bread dough topped by a dense, white layer, then red sauce and toppings. 


It appears that the bread flour doughs absorbed moisture and formed an interface layer that doesn't cook, even at 800F. None of the three Tipo 00 pies had this layer, despite using the same pot of sauce, bowl of grated mozzarella, and toppings on most pies. A "leftover" pie made using turkey gravy as sauce was especially doughy.


Looks like I need to stock more Tipo 00 in the pantry. 


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The fire story. Started with a full basket of a little old coal, the end of a bag of mesquite coal, topped with some Royal Oak to top off. Aiming for 650-700F, I didn't watch it, and it ran up to 850F, and stabilized. Kids were late or sleeping, so I made:

Pie #1, a Tipo 00 dough, cooked 3.5 min @ 800F+

Sometime later...

Pie #2, a Tipo 00 dough, cooked 6 min. @ 700F. Pictured above. 

Pie #3 is the first Artisan dough, cooked 8 min. @ 650F. Pictured above. 


Then the fire died. Fuel was gone. Took a break for a re-build with all mesquite, and again attained 850F! OK, I was watching football; my team was winning!

Pie #4 is the last Tipo 00 dough, cooked 4 min @ 800F

Pie #5 is another Artisan dough, a special made with gravy, cooked 6 min. @ 750F. very doughy. 

Pie #6 is the last Artisan dough, cooked 8 min @ 700F in hopes of more fully cooking it. No joy.


All three Artisan bread flour pies had the dough layer. None of the Tipo 00 pies did. Cooking time and temp did vary, but only to achieve consistent cooking. 


Have fun, 














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I basically agree with @landscaper. A dough recipe formulated for 00 flour is going to be different than one formulated for Artisan flour. Also temps and times are going to be significantly different when using 00 flour compared to Artisan flour. You can't just mix it up like that. (I do understand you ran out of 00 flour and you punted) Sounds like your recipe was formulated to use 00 flour. Find a different recipe for the Artisan flour. 



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Well, it turns out that Bob's Artisan bread flour has a recipe on the bag, and it's the same as I use with 00 - flour, water, yeast and salt. Bob's is a 10 oz. 2-pie recipe while I usually get 3 from 500g  of 00. Only differences is hydration, Bob's calls for 60% while I used 65% in both of these doughs because I hadn't planned to cook above 700F. 


Crusts cooked the same, all pies were nice and crisp. Very similar browning, top and bottom; everything looked great. The photo shows that. The mouth feel was more like doughy toppings on a crisp crust even though the toppings were boiling like mad when it came out.  


Maybe Italian pizza flour is different?


Edited by fbov

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Watched your videos, John, so that was my expectation, too. Of course, I kind of overshot the target temperature... 

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2 hours ago, fbov said:

Watched your videos, John, so that was my expectation, too. Of course, I kind of overshot the target temperature... 


You have me curious now.  I am wondering exactly how two different flours could produce the differences you saw.  00 flour is not a 'different' flour... it's a different grind.. a finer grind.  The bread flour was a higher protein flour.  I don't typically use bread flour for pizza but I have used it on a few occasions.  I have never used Bob's.  I have always used King Arthur.  The bread flour should have produced a stronger gluten network.  Let's see if @Ben S has any thoughts on this...


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