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JABF99

Starter from yeast vs. sourdough starter

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I just made my first pizza on the Kamado using the poolish starter recipe from "The Pizza Bible" and it was very good.  Exceptional aroma and flavor.  This morning I was reading the pinned thread here about sourdough.  What is the difference in flavor between using a yeast based starter vs a sourdough starter?  Is it worth it to go the next step to sourdough?  Or is the flavor about the same?  Just curious... I'm laughing because I know I'm probably gonna give this a try next anyway, but thought I'd ask here first :-)

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If you want to try sourdough without a starter, there is an old simple overnight pancake recipe that used to be found in an Alaskan "old-time" recipes pamphlet.  These are very good & will give you an ideal if you like sourdough flavor (or not).

You can find it currently here:

recipegoldmine

or here:

therecipefile

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5 hours ago, JABF99 said:

 

........Or is the flavor about the same?  Just curious.

 

...... Is it worth it to go the next step to sourdough? 

 

........I'm laughing because I know I'm probably gonna give this a try next anyway,

 

1. As BeN points out, the flavor is similar but not the same.  

 

2.  Imo it is definitely worth it to try a starter, you and your family will then be able to determine if the flavor is worth the effort.

 

3.  I encourage you to try, it’s fun and the only way to find out how it hits your taste buds 

 

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7 hours ago, JABF99 said:

I just made my first pizza on the Kamado using the poolish starter recipe from "The Pizza Bible" and it was very good.  Exceptional aroma and flavor.  This morning I was reading the pinned thread here about sourdough.  What is the difference in flavor between using a yeast based starter vs a sourdough starter?  Is it worth it to go the next step to sourdough?  Or is the flavor about the same?  Just curious... I'm laughing because I know I'm probably gonna give this a try next anyway, but thought I'd ask here first :-)

Here is a YouTube video from Cowboy Kent Rollins on a quick and easy sourdough starter

 

 

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When I got into SD baking I read everything and watched every video. People will tell you there are tricks and secrets. 

 

IT IS NOT HARD. 

 

NIGHT 1- 

30 g whole wheat flour+ 30 g water in a small glass jar.  Mix. Place lid on loosely. 

 

Night 2-14 

scoop out  most of the starter mix, add 30 g whole wheat flour+ 30 g water in a small glass jar.  Mix. Place lid on loosely. 

 

After about two weeks you should have a working starter.  

 

Tips:  

after a couple days you will see a rise then it will stop happening. This is a certain bacteria strain. Ignore this. Wait two weeks. 

 

I like small glass leftover jelly jars.  If I see

- black or grey

 -dry bits at the top and an off smell

  -fruit flies landing in the starter

take a small spoonful out and add that to a new container. 

 

Every stage and variable plays a role in the final flavor.  Get your starter alive and happy and then we can talk about varying things like 

flour

temp

rise time

————

the closest approximation I can think of to SD bread would be a loaf where you substitute beer for water in no-knead bread. 

 

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Okay, I'm psyched to give this a try.  I have to make a two day trip next week.  Can I still begin the process now of developing a sourdough, and just miss two days of feeding, or should I wait until I come back from my trip and then begin my first day of the process then?

 

Also, I am curious if I can use an existing poolish starter pizza dough recipe but now use it with sourdough (and no added yeast)?  Do you just use the same amount of sourdough as poolish starter?  Or is it a completely different approach with sourdough and you need a sourdough recipe? 

Edited by JABF99

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I'm going to just take starter sourdough with me on our trip & feed it with flour I'll bring along.  LOL, I haven't run that by my wife yet... she already thinks I've lost my mind since I got the Kamado.  I'm definitely down the rabbit hole now with the pizza on the Kamado.  But it's fun down here :-)

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10 minutes ago, JABF99 said:

I'm going to just take starter sourdough with me on our trip & feed it with flour I'll bring along.  LOL, I haven't run that by my wife yet... she already thinks I've lost my mind since I got the Kamado.  I'm definitely down the rabbit hole now with the pizza on the Kamado.  But it's fun down here :-)

 

Where are you?  Maybe someone local has some you can share? If you were in Boston I would give you some. 

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2 hours ago, Ben S said:

 

Where are you?  Maybe someone local has some you can share? If you were in Boston I would give you some. 

 

I just started day-1 of my starter.  Actually, I'm excited about making my own.  It sounds pretty cool.  But thanks.

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11 hours ago, John Setzler said:

You can also experiment with a poolish made from both yeasts

 

Thank you, that is good to know since I have wondered how the recipes in the two pizza books would translate to using sourdough starter.  In fact it was worrying me that I would now need to find new recipes that specifically focus on sourdough.  And some of those recipes in "The Pizza Bible" in particular are ones that I am dying to try 1-by-1 and over the next year or so.  It never occurred to me that I could experiment with a poolish made from both yeasts.  Now I can still do those recipes exactly as they are provided in the books, but with a poolish tweaked with some of my sourdough yeast.  That sounds like a fun thing to try.

Edited by JABF99

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I love sourdough for roast beef sandwiches and for clam chowder bowls. For my pizza.... not so much.

 

I did give it a shot a few weeks ago and made a starter from whole wheat flour. It was ok.

 

This weekend I tried a recipe using a poolish starter, I liked this approach so much better! The fermented flavor is more yeasty than sour, which I prefer for pizza. And quite a bit easier. I used a recipe from Marc Vetri's book, Mastering Pizza. It was delicious.

When pressing to create the outer rim...yeasty air bubbles kept growing!

 

The toppings list is from Tony Gemignani's menu:

Asiago, Mozarella, Gorgonzola, Parmigiano (about 1.5 oz each) + Prosciutto + Balsamic reduction + Fig spread and Garlic oil

 

IMG_5660.thumb.jpeg.2ebed371ea3f291babc308cae3f49e1f.jpeg

IMG_5682.thumb.jpeg.54ac7f567682305d29ca2fbf9f09ddce.jpeg

 

IMG_5690.thumb.jpeg.e098107489a1728dbd75eb992c0e03f9.jpegIMG_5694.thumb.jpeg.4ce1ee2b12f0274ab34715dc85a5b62e.jpeg

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I've been following John Seltzer's pinned thread on how to make a sourdough starter (the pinned thread in the forum).  It's not completely through the 7-days but it is very active already.  Instead of throwing away the excess this last time I used it as poolish in a recipe.  I was just curious I guess.

 

I had planned on smoking some salmon for dinner for my wife and I yesterday and thought what-the-heck I could do a mini-pizza with the poolish to go with the smoked salmon.  BTW, I follow the John Seltzer recipe for a low temperature smoke with the honey glaze.  We do love salmon that way. 

 

Anyway I followed the master dough recipe in "The Pizza Bible" and substituted the extra/leftover sourdough starter for the 90 grams of poolish in that recipe.  I did use 10% extra water due to the fact I was using some whole wheat.  Anyway, I wanted to just do some tiny 6-inch mini pizzas to go with the salmon. 

 

For flour:

60% All Trumps  Unbleached/Unbromated Flour

30% Bob's Red Mill Organic Stone Ground, Whole Wheat Flour

10%  Bob's Red Mill Organic Stone Ground, Dark Rye Flour

 

After the dough rose, I did roll the dough to 1/8" thin six inch rounds and let them sit for about an hour, then I added the toppings and put them on the pizza stone on the grill at 400-425 degrees.  They cooked in 6 or 7 minutes.  The next time I do this I will cook at a higher temp... I was hungry to eat that salmon that had just come off the low and slow smoke, and just quickly brought the temp to 400 degrees and added the mini pizzas.  They were Jalapeno, onion and garlic.

 

I was pleased with the result.  I'm sure I will learn a lot over the next year or so (I learn best by doing and experimenting).  The flavor of the crust was wonderful, and it picked up the smoke flavor of the White Oak hardwood.  The whole wheat and dark rye flour seemed to be adding a lot to the flavor also.  The crust itself was perfect as far as the texture.  The bottom was crunchy while the rest was light and chewy the way I like my pizza crust to be.  It did end up thicker than I thought it would be.  The crust was about 1/4" thick... and I did like the end result.

 

I can't wait to do straight sourdough crust when the starter is fully ready... this preview was a hit with my wife and I :-)

Pizza on grill w salmon small.jpg

Pizza w salmon small.jpg

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