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Ideal space between heat deflector and pizza stone?


fafrd
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I also think that the fire coming from below on Kamados hits the stones too hard. On a traditional wood fire oven the fire sits at the same level with flames shooting above to the dome. Marc Vetri on his book Mastering Pizza suggests a floor temperature of 600deg. With that in mind I created a setup using 2.5" insulating brick between my deflector and pizza stone.

 

I shoot for 700deg dome temp and and about 580deg for the stone. They take about 3 to 4 mins to cook. Not exactly Neapolitan specs, but happy with the results.

 

 

Here are photos of my setup and results:IMG_5747.thumb.jpeg.8f4b987bb7a3f81d9f778c870642c530.jpegIMG_5746.thumb.jpeg.1008b12410a453745192a2beba032cd6.jpegIMG_5781_s.thumb.jpg.c7b351d94915c92d93fa3d8c3c36a072.jpgIMG_5782.thumb.jpeg.976140ccd18540332fed4301960d1b19.jpegIMG_5748.thumb.jpeg.83b6ae1d6e932710d19de1f09ceef549.jpeg

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  • 2 weeks later...
On August 26, 2019 at 7:53 AM, andiamhappy said:

Not sure why everyone throws their entire kitchen sink into the Kamado.

 

Here's a setup I use. The blackened part is a natural non-stick surface created using corn meal. I took a rebar and bent it to fit my grill support (16 inch distance).

post-10161-0-28402100-1468462666_thumb.jpeg

 

I like the rebar :)

 

What temp are you cooking your pizzas at (stone temp)?

 

Also, what are those things that look like screws in the middle of your gasket?

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On August 12, 2019 at 11:02 PM, Jose Andres Zapata said:

I also think that the fire coming from below on Kamados hits the stones too hard. On a traditional wood fire oven the fire sits at the same level with flames shooting above to the dome. Marc Vetri on his book Mastering Pizza suggests a floor temperature of 600deg. With that in mind I created a setup using 2.5" insulating brick between my deflector and pizza stone.

 

I shoot for 700deg dome temp and and about 580deg for the stone. They take about 3 to 4 mins to cook. Not exactly Neapolitan specs, but happy with the results.

 

 

Here are photos of my setup and results:IMG_5747.thumb.jpeg.8f4b987bb7a3f81d9f778c870642c530.jpegIMG_5746.thumb.jpeg.1008b12410a453745192a2beba032cd6.jpegIMG_5781_s.thumb.jpg.c7b351d94915c92d93fa3d8c3c36a072.jpgIMG_5782.thumb.jpeg.976140ccd18540332fed4301960d1b19.jpegIMG_5748.thumb.jpeg.83b6ae1d6e932710d19de1f09ceef549.jpeg

 

Those are some fine-looking pizzas!

 

Do you actually get your dome temperature above your puzza stone temperature?  How are you measuring those temps?

 

I'm using the same IR thermometer to measure both dome and stone (center and edge) and my stone is always warmer than my dome.  With a long-enough heat-soak, I'll get the dome and the stone to the same temperature.

 

You think the large heat-mass you've created with those bricks is allowing your heat stone to lag behind your dome?  Interesting idea.  But does that mean the stone is continueing to heat up between pizzas? (while the dome is stable)

 

Also, what tupe of flour are you using to lubricate your pizza peel?

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On 8/13/2019 at 2:02 AM, Jose Andres Zapata said:
  1. I also think that the fire coming from below on Kamados hits the stones too hard. On a traditional wood fire oven the fire sits at the same level with flames shooting above to the dome. Marc Vetri on his book Mastering Pizza suggests a floor temperature of 600deg. With that in mind I created a setup using 2.5" insulating brick between my deflector and pizza stone.
  2. I shoot for 700deg dome temp and and about 580deg for the stone. They take about 3 to 4 mins to cook. Not exactly Neapolitan specs, but happy with the results.

 

 

1.  your point #1 is spot on. in a pizza oven we use 'doming' to achieve the balance that you describe,  Looks like you've engineered a great solution with the insulating bricks.  why flour type/hydration are you using with the 600f floor temps?

 

2.  those temps sound about perfect for kamado pizza, ive done a bunch of pizza cooks on the kamado but dont bring my kamado over 500f anymore these days.  i find 800f to be the sweet spot for Neo's in my WFO, 900f is just too hot.  

 

3. your pizzas look fantastic!

 

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15 hours ago, fafrd said:

Also, what are those things that look like screws in the middle of your gasket?

They're rivets. He has an Akorn, a steel Kamado with a soft gasket, only on the lid. 

 

I could not get pizza top browning on my Akorn. Great crust, but the top needed time in the broiler every time. The Big Joe fixed what ailed the Akorn.  

 

Have fun,

Frank

Edited by fbov
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1 hour ago, fbov said:

They're rivets. He has an Akorn, a steel Kamado with a soft gasket, only on the lid. 

 

I could not get pizza top browning on my Akorn. Great crust, but the top needed time in the broiler every time. The Big Joe fixed what ailed the Akorn.  

 

Have fun,

Frank

 

Got it - thanks.

 

My neighbors are toying around with the idea of getting one of those wood-pellet-fired steel pizza oven, but from what you've stated about the Akorn, sounds like they will be dissapointed...

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16 hours ago, freddyjbbq said:

 

1.  your point #1 is spot on. in a pizza oven we use 'doming' to achieve the balance that you describe,  Looks like you've engineered a great solution with the insulating bricks.  why flour type/hydration are you using with the 600f floor temps?

 

2.  those temps sound about perfect for kamado pizza, ive done a bunch of pizza cooks on the kamado but dont bring my kamado over 500f anymore these days.  i find 800f to be the sweet spot for Neo's in my WFO, 900f is just too hot.  

 

3. your pizzas look fantastic!

 

 

I have been making the dough at about 62% hydration. Lately I have been using Marc Vetri's Neapolitan recipe with a poolish starter which I really like now.

 

Thank you Freddy.

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On 8/29/2019 at 5:29 PM, fafrd said:

 

Got it - thanks.

 

My neighbors are toying around with the idea of getting one of those wood-pellet-fired steel pizza oven, but from what you've stated about the Akorn, sounds like they will be dissapointed...

haha.. I can say that Akorn did its job really well, each time. The condition: you need to know how to manage temperature of the dome and stone.

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On 8/29/2019 at 12:44 AM, fafrd said:

 

I like the rebar :)

 

What temp are you cooking your pizzas at (stone temp)?

 

Also, what are those things that look like screws in the middle of your gasket?

thanks! I have toyed with many concepts regarding the platform and stones. This is what I finally settled on and have made over 500 pizzas with this setup.

 

Temps: Stone 600F, Dome 650-700F. My pizzas usually cook between 90-180 seconds.

 

The Akorn has its gasket attached to the top of the dome, so the bottom steel has rivet fixtures, which overall is easier to clean. That said, after 5 years, it has fallen apart. The first to go was the cart-wheels, then the outer enamel coating in the bottom ash collector, then the top vent and its gasket.. you get the picture. If I were to make the decision again, I may have gone with a Ceramic to start with rather than steel even thought it was $350 inclusive of accessories.

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16 minutes ago, andiamhappy said:
Quote

 

thanks! I have toyed with many concepts regarding the platform and stones. This is what I finally settled on and have made over 500 pizzas with this setup.


 

 

Wow, that's alot of pizzas!  With this weekends cook, I'll be approaching 1/10th of that...

 

16 minutes ago, andiamhappy said:


 

Quote

 

Temps: Stone 600F, Dome 650-700F. My pizzas usually cook between 90-180 seconds.


 

 

 

So the dome temp gets up higher than the stone because it is metal rather than ceramic and quickly heats right up to smoke temperature?

 

I can never get my ceramic dome higher than my stone (unless I cut the heat and let temps start to drift down - the stone drops faster than the dome).

 

How do you decide how long to cook? Rotate after 60 seconds and decide how much more based on how it looks?

 

16 minutes ago, andiamhappy said:

The Akron has its gasket attached to the top of the dome, so the bottom steel has rivet fixtures, which overall is easier to clean. That said, after 5 years, it has fallen apart. The first to go was the cart-wheels, then the outer enamel coating in the bottom ash collector, then the top vent and its gasket.. you get the picture. If I were to make the decision again, I may have gone with a Ceramic to start with rather than steel even thought it was $350 inclusive of accessories.

 

$350 with accessories is a pretty good deal (only $0.70 per pizza ;).

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35 minutes ago, fafrd said:

Wow, that's alot of pizzas!  With this weekends cook, I'll be approaching 1/10th of that...

 

So the dome temp gets up higher than the stone because it is metal rather than ceramic and quickly heats right up to smoke temperature?

 

 

How do you decide how long to cook? Rotate after 60 seconds and decide how much more based on how it looks?

 

 

$350 with accessories is a pretty good deal (only $0.70 per pizza ;).

 

--haha and I am sure that you will get there soon. true, if you don't count the variable cost.

 

I usually don't the add the stone (with rebar) until the dome gets to 500F. Once the dome then gets past 650F and based on the stone temp, I use a trick I saw a middle-eastern lady cooking pita bread in traditional wood fired use on youtube.. dip a cloth in water and evenly wipe the stone until the water stops evaporating on contact (that's a sign), which should put it at around 500-550F. You will have to do this multiple time to cover the surface.

 

Then let it get back to temp and manage away.

 

I don't turn, rather simply release the crust off the stone using spatula, before closing quickly around 20-30 seconds. If you are getting uneven burn, then your fire needs to be evenly distributed.

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On 8/29/2019 at 5:29 PM, fafrd said:

wood-pellet-fired steel pizza oven, ..., sounds like they will be disappointed

If it's a pizza oven, it's likely to cook pizza very, very well. 

Frank

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11 minutes ago, andiamhappy said:
Quote

 

--haha and I am sure that you will get there soon. true, if you don't count the variable cost.

 

I usually don't the add the stone (with rebar) until the dome gets to 500F. Once the dome then gets past 650F and based on the stone temp, I use a trick I saw a middle-eastern lady cooking pita bread in traditional wood fired use on youtube.. dip a cloth in water and evenly wipe the stone until the water stops evaporating on contact (that's a sign), which should put it at around 500-550F. You will have to do this multiple time to cover the surface.

 

Then let it get back to temp and manage away.


 

 

 

Wow, that is a very interesting idea.  So you quickly cool the pizza stone down from ~dome temp to 500-550F then monitor as it heats back up and put the pizza on once it hits 600F - that is absolutely brilliant!

 

I think we may try that technique this weekend.  I'm probably going to aim for higher temps than you target, but the same technique ought to work.  I bought a fancy pizza stone that withstands being heated to 700F and then being tossed into a bowl of water: http://www.californiapizzastones.com/pizza/files/pizza-stones-That-Do-Not-Thermal-Shock.php

 

image.jpeg.55a1c0e1ccc9de5a9738eef7b9f10f07.jpeg

 

So having the surface wiped with water at temps of 750 or 800F should be no problem.  I assume you do gloves when you do this and even then, you probably neec to move pretty fast, right?  I've charred pizzas in 30 seconds, so I suspect i's not going to be comfortable having a hand in there for long.

 

What about other alternative like throwing an ice cube or two on the pizza stone?

 

11 minutes ago, andiamhappy said:

I don't turn, rather simply release the crust off the stone using spatula, before closing quickly around 20-30 seconds. If you are getting uneven burn, then your fire needs to be evenly distributed.

 

What do ypu mean by 'release the crust off of the stone'?  You mean you break the seal between crust and stone (without rotating) partway through?  And then you close it back up for another 20-30 seconds - do you peak at the underside of the crust whn releasing with your spatula?

 

My fire is evenly distributed and the temperature of my pizza stone is uniform.  The excessive char ftom my first pizza cook may have been caused by uneven temps, but since then, I'm suspecting it may be getting caused by the black spots burned into the stone surface - they may conduct heat more efficiently than the white uncharred areas.

 

Going to sand off the dark spots or flip the stone to see if that reduces the charring...

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